Interview date: April 2005
Interviewed by Ka-Man Tse
LMCC: Tell me about your process. How do you work?
Oona Stern: Well, there are several different kinds
of projects I do. Most of them are site-specific. The project
or the inspiration for the piece will come from the site itself and
it suggests certain materials. And depending on the space it might
be a floor piece or a wall piece. That’s kind of in principle,
and most of what I do is architecturally driven. But then the
materials will shift. A lot of the stuff shifts. For instance,
a floor piece will be made in reference to floor boards but it will
be made out of carpet. So the process is kind of one of experiencing
a space and thinking about the materials and drawing through it. So
a lot of times I’ll visit a site, I’ll come back to my
studio and I’ll just draw until I get a sense of what the right
materials are and what the right imagery is for the location. And
then I kind of have to draw through scale and materials and colors
and things until I arrive at the concept, basically.
LMCC: What are the materials that you work with?
You work only with specific materials, is that correct?
Oona: Not really.
LMCC: Can you list some materials?
Oona: Sheetrock, carpet. They tend to
be more construction materials— plywood. But a lot of what
I do, even though it’s sculptural and it tends to be categorized
as either sculptural or installation because it’s drawing based,
the material is really a function of the imagery, and it’s not
about the material itself. So sometimes I try and eliminate material
altogether, and it becomes just a drawing on a location. And
then I’ll use this kind of poster material. But there,
it’s not about the materials as much as it’s about the
imagery and a kind of graphic iconography of it. But the materials
tend to not be fine art materials, but are construction or industrial
materials.
LMCC: Tell me about your most recent piece, and
how it started and where you are with it now?
Oona: There’s two pieces I should talk about,
and they’re pretty different. So there’s one that’s
here at the studio. And I prefer pieces that exist in a public
space that aren’t just a sculpture that is independent of location. But
I had previously done a wall piece like this and it had been exhibited
in Germany. A lot of times in my studio, my other studio was
rather small and I ended up doing samples. But here [at this
studio LMCC 120 Broadway] there’s this nice big wall and I thought
I would do a piece on the wall. Even though it’s not really
a public site. It’s a little more studio-driven. But
it was an opportunity to execute this piece. So I had the idea
for the materials on this big wall, the carpet and sheetrock. It
was really mapping out the project. The concept was already kind
of gestating. And here was this wall and could come in and execute
it, using the space and using the time.
And then the other project that developed while I was here is a really
large scale public piece which uses the processes of advertising banners. [referring
to those drawings that are up on the wall]. The idea is that out
in the urban fabric of the city, these advertising banners kind of erase
architecture. They cover over windows, they cover over details. And
it’s part of a series of projects that are reclaiming this territory
back for the language of architecture. So I’m doing a piece
at the Carriage House, it’s a shingled house, and I use the image
of the shingle. The image often comes from the site. It could
be brick, it could be shingle, it could be stone, it could be wood. And
so in this case I’m looking at plywood scaffoldings that wrap,
there are all these buildings, especially down here [site of the residency]
that are being converted, from commercial to residential, and they’re
all wrapped in scaffolding and then the scaffolding itself is wrapped
in advertising signage. And they’re huge and it’s next
to Wall St. And there’s there this resonance that is about
capitalism, the center of capitalism, and how it’s covering all
of these buildings. So the idea is to kind of reclaim this little
piece of street architecture back with the language of architecture instead
of advertising, but using the same materials. So a banner would
be wrapped on scaffolding and then have an image of another wood, or
stone or brick. In this case I’m looking at a kind of wood-grain
iconography. Because the scaffolding itself is wood. So it’s
kind of reclaiming the material back.
LMCC: But then the actual printed material itself
would still be in advertising material itself, the vinyl?
Oona: Yeah, the vinyl banner. I mean it depends
on the location, because if it’s up on a building, it tends to
be vinyl, if its on the streetscape, they’re very often wheat-pasted,
like those music posters. So it’s driven by the final location. So
the concept is this broad. And then the actual image and the
actual materials will shift, depending on once the site is finalized.
LMCC: That was one of the questions we have for
all the artists, is how has this studio space and working in this specific
area in Manhattan being the financial district, influenced your work,
if at all? And you’ve already started talking about it.
Oona: Yeah, it provided a really good venue and
a good location, added an extra resonance. I’ve done several
of these resurfacing projects. But they’re a little bit
different, because here, it’s a kind of a center for capitalism,
and advertising is a tool for generating money. And so it adds
another layer conceptually to the work itself. My work can be
taken just visually on a graphic level. It could be thought
of as drawing, these posters projects are as if I’m drawing on
these buildings themselves. But because of the location and the
materials, the reference to the practice of advertising, it kind of
really tapped into that angle, because they’re kind of multi-faceted,
so it exaggerates that aspect of it. Especially here too where
the streets are so narrow and everything’s down on the public
level. Where you walk down the streets and all of that you don’t
really see the buildings anymore because of all the construction work.
LMCC: It’s almost disorienting too, which
is what we’ve all been talking about here at LMCC, just walking
around, it’s all pretty insane.
Oona: Yeah. They’ve stolen that experience,
the downtown experience. And so this is almost a little bit of
a political statement too, in terms of reclaiming, or reactivating
this public territory for public experience.
LMCC: Do you see yourself as a political artist?
Oona: In certain ways. But that’s almost
more personal motivation. It doesn’t come up in the content
of the work. But I think that’s why I like work to be in
public, as opposed to just sitting in a room… It’s not
generated in a room, it’s generated in a public context. It’s
about being experienced almost unconsciously by you know [people ]
you pass by, you don’t notice it. If it’s a carpet piece,
you walk over it, even if it’s installed in a gallery or a museum
and you may not notice it until you go back over it, and there’s
a certain transition between on or off and that a consciousness of
the piece can happen slowly, as opposed to just, “Here is a piece
of art. Look at it, and admire it.” It’s about
a more subliminal experience or unconscious experience that just adds
to it. It’s art being life, as opposed to being deified
and separated out of the daily context. So in that sense, conceptually,
or philosophically, it’s a little more political. But
certainly you might not look at one of these pieces and consider them
as political work.
LMCC: What influences your work, what sources
do you draw from the most, are there any interdisciplinary influences?
Oona: There’s a certain historical period, say
the ‘60s or ‘70s, the earthwork artists who broke out of
the gallery. So talking about the kind of political context,
I’m very much sympathetic to their motivations and their interests. And
then the artists who’ve continued that, or the next generations
from there. Certainly an artist like Gordon Matta Clark, is one
of my favorite. He used the urban landscape. Everything
was his material. The way he could cut a building or he could
use a corner of a sidewalk, and he would look for records in city hall.
Everything was material for artwork and it existed everywhere as opposed
to just in a room. So that kind of work has been very inspiring
for me. And then artists who continue to work in that vein. Certainly
there have been a lot of contemporary installation artists that I think
are really fascinating, like Tom Hirschhorn, or Eliz Olufsen, any of
those people who work in a broader public arena, and I think they’re
doing really interesting work.
LMCC: What are some of the goals that you are
trying to achieve? You’ve already started talking about
that…
Oona: I think the challenge for me is doing work
in a public area. Because you can’t really do it as an individual
artist. And that’s why LMCC has been great, because they
really identify what’s difficult for the practice of an artist
like myself, by trying to organize or facilitate the poster project,
for example. Something like that I can’t do on my own. I’ve
done a few small ones, and certainly the option of guerilla art is
always there, but I’m not really interested in that so much…
LMCC: Why not?
Oona: Because that can often carry another ….
I mean I may have to resort to it, if I can’t achieve these in
another way, and it’s very frustrating, the whole process of
public art. It’s very kind of long and tedious and requires
a lot of patience.
LMCC: It’s about access and permission.
Oona: Yeah, and those things are very frustrating
and people have very narrow visions. And so my goal is to find
partners, people who can help me. That’s what I really
need. It’s both challenging, but it seems like there’s
a trend, that there’s more organizations interested in that these
days.
LMCC: And how long do you work on something [or
an idea], when do you know that a project or even just one piece of
work is complete?
Oona: They’re pretty discreet. I tend
to know what the end is going to be before I begin. It’s
almost like the project will present itself to me, almost complete,
the idea, and then I just have to work out the details. So if
I know that the project is going to be a large-scale poster project,
once I know what the site is, then I can generate the imagery. I
have a process. So the process will kind of map out the details. Because
of the public nature [of the work], the process is kind of endless. [laughs]
So the end is when someone gets to say, “You can do it.” And
there’s money available. In theory it’s nice to hook
it up to a public event of some sort. One poster project I did
in Germany was at the same time that I had a show. But the poster
was in a totally different location and there was no sign. It
was around a construction site, and you could walk by and not know
it. But it was still, if someone went to the gallery… it
reinforces a public awareness, just to have it coincide with another
kind of event. Otherwise, a lot of these things can be missed. It’s
all great to have them out there on their own, but it’s just
nice to have a little bit more appreciation for them for all the hard
work that goes into them.
LMCC: Exactly. … Do you mind it being missed?
Do you mind certain people sort of just not…[knowing that it’s
even art] Because there’s always the argument, where the
public knows that something is at least declaring itself as art, and
there’s the public argument, “Is it art or is it not art?” Such
as the Gates, that was the biggest debate for a while. But at
least everyone knew, it wasn’t like someone was confused that
they were construction flags or something. What do you think
about….
Oona: I don’t think it has to be super-declaratory. I
think straddling that fence. It shouldn’t be something
you don’t notice, and there is also the question, is it just
decoration? Because I’m thinking in a bigger context on
all these levels, it’s not really decoration, it’s not
just…it seems architectural, but I’m coming from a fine
arts source for a reason, because I think that tends to raise other
questions and create a dialogue. So it’s all well and good
to do it because it interests me, but it should generate a little more
of a dialogue. So it shouldn’t be totally missed over. But
I like that integration into a bigger context, and it’s really
hard to find the right… to get all these things to line up at
just the right level. And plus, you know, I work very hard on
these projects and for a really long time, and it’s nice to have
a little recognition. It’s just human nature, not that
you have to be famous. After a while…. And some
things, you just do for the sake of doing. But life is long,
and you need more than just self-amusement. You want to be engaged
with more people and the context. And so feedback is important.
LMCC: Sometimes I personally think that art is
about being responsible to others. That you are existing with
relationships to the world, and other people in your life or even totally
outside the immediate circle of your life. Sort of having to
pay a social rent is important.
Oona: Yeah and I think that’s what’s nice
about thinking about work in a public context is that. It’s
fine if someone looks at it and says they don’t like it. Or
if they’re not even sure what it is. Some of it is about
raising questions and breaking expectations. And if you see something
made out of one material and suddenly it’s made out of another
material, that little moment of surprise, that’s enough [for
me]. That’s great, that’s all there has to be, really. It
doesn’t have to be something super moving, or super deep, Sometimes
it’s just shifting things a little, because we all march through
life. You walk down the street and you don’t see what’s
around you and you think the same thoughts and you kind of have an
expectation of what things are going to be. So sometimes it’s
just about shaking things up or pointing things out.
LMCC: Yeah. My friends and I used to talk about
we should just put people in vans, put our friends get ourselves in
vans and just have people point: just drive around and point and that
would be the art.
Oona: Exactly. Or you could just stand here
and say, “Did you notice?” In a little stewardess outfit
or something, “Did you notice that this construction fence is
made out of plywood?” And basically that’s what a lot of
my projects are doing. “Did you notice that?...You walk
over a piece of carpet, and you don’t notice it and you come
back and notice that there’s wood flooring cut into the carpet.” And
it’s kind of saying, “Did you notice that we think of stripes
equal – like it’s a graphic equation –stripes equal
wood in certain circumstances.” “Did you notice that
rectangles equal brick?” And some of the way I use graphic iconography
is just about that. It’s a little finger pointing out of
the van.
LMCC: Totally. That’s what’s
really cool about, what would be called conceptual art, it’s
that it’s just the knowledge of it that changes everything, so
that almost you don’t even really need physical materials. The
material is just a cerebral thing added to physical experience.
Oona: Right, is a way of expressing the idea. And
that’s always a challenge for me because you can get lost then
in the materials. Oh, isn’t this beautiful, isn’t
this interesting. And you can get lost from the original source. So
I’m always asking myself, what is the least that I need in terms
of materials, in terms of visuals, to stick to the idea? And
very often I have to throw things out; throw things away. Sometimes
you love this orange material. Is it necessary? It’s
just a nostalgic relationship sometimes, to something. Or extraneous
to the concept. So I’m always paring things down and saying
what’s the least I need to get this idea across?
LMCC: What’s the hardest thing you’ve
had to cut out? You know filmmakers talk about that scene you
cut that just breaks their heart…
Oona: I don’t know what the hardest is. I
can tell you that currently there’s this wall piece that I made. So
it’s made out of carpet and sheetrock. There’s not
a lot there. The first one I made I had painted it and I assumed
that I would paint the second one. And then I put it up. Because
the sheetrock has always these different colors, it has this modulation
of stone. It talks about the same materials and the same subject
matter from a different vantage point. And I wouldn’t have
painted all those colors, I would have just painted it white, say. And
I had to decide, was I going to paint it, or was I going to leave it? I
pretty much concluded, “I’m going to leave it,” but
that was a really hard thing to do because I had a relationship in
my mind to a piece that was painted and that had certain details. To
free myself of that relationship to that and say, if the idea is about
these materials and this visual, is this all I need? Is it done
now? That’s the challenge. It could be really hard
to…
LMCC: …to make that decision.
Oona: …to make that decision. Yeah.
LMCC: So in a sense, you still do… even
though you talked about how you go into a problem, or the beginning
an art project knowing what you want, you still have these sort of
preconceptions that are still worked out.
Oona: Absolutely. And every decision,
especially if I’m trying to pare things down then every decision
is crucial, in a way. Although I try not to get too caught up,
sometimes it’s identifying where it’s important to spend
your time, and how much time is ok to spend there. So
then in this case, the color of the carpet is supposed to be white. It’s
not really white, it’s off-white. In a way I think I should
have spent more time on the color of the carpet. If I did it
again, I’d pick a different white. But I have this one
and this is what the piece has become. So you can’t always
know what’s going to be important at the beginning. Very
often I don’t know what the piece is until it’s done and
gone because these things don’t, after they’re done they’re
destroyed usually. I don’t save all of the materials. If
anything, the material isn’t precious. But I have a map
of this. The map and the process is a pattern. That’s
the thing. It’s like Sol LeWitt’s lists or directions. And
that’s the work, and the sheetrock can always be cut out, and
can be cut out by anybody. It can be any gray, it doesn’t
have to be this gray. And the carpet could be any white, and
that would be visually, nicer to look at or something like that. But
conceptually it’s the same piece. With this one I’m
struggling with, “Do I like the way it looks, is it the right
white?” But it may not really affect the concept of the piece.
Sometimes I say that those details don’t count and sometimes
they do and sometimes they don’t. Like the nature of those
drawings for the billboards project, I just do crappy little craypas
drawings and I blow them up digitally. And they’re very sloppy
and very crude, but then when they’re blown up they have a painterly
quality and one level I’m saying I’m not interested in a
quality of line but on the other hand it is exactly a certain sloppy
quality of line that is essential. So it’s like straddling
the fence or having it two ways.
LMCC: What are you thinking about doing next?
Oona: To complete this public piece. That’s
really what I want to… I’d like to complete that. It’s
very easy to have a million proposals. I have years of
proposals, I have projects that exist as a model form, or as a sample
and don’t get completed. So I’d like to take advantage
of this relationship with LMCC and really make this happen and not
let it just peter out just because the residency’s over. I
have to keep these connections fertile.
LMCC: What kind of music are you listening to?
Oona: I just put on the radio.
LMCC: What station?
Oona: WFMU. Matt and Jesse [fellow residents]
listen to that too and so if we’re just working, we can turn
it up so it works out well.
LMCC: favorite website?
Oona: None.
LMCC: What else do you pursue besides art?
Oona: Well I have a kid, he’s four. So
I get to do things with him and that’s really different. I
spent a lot of time just hanging out with a 4 a year-old and having
4-year-old fun. Making things with him.
LMCC: What’s his name?
Oona: Kevin. So now we’re making the planets
for his room and that’s just wadding up paper and tape and glue. It’s
all low craft and just hanging them on strings from the ceiling.
LMCC: Cool.
Oona: So that’s what I pursue.
LMCC: What’s the oddest job you’ve
ever had?
Oona: I don’t know… maybe being a parent
is an odd job.
LMCC: How do you personally get rid of the hiccups?
Oona: I just wait til they’re gone. [laughs]
LMCC: Is that what you tell your son too?
Oona: No, I try to scare him and shout at him, and
he says, “Mom, stop!” [laughs] He hiccups a
lot, so we get rid of the hiccups, laughing.
